LotR character thinkythoughts
Sep. 8th, 2010 09:31 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
elabyI keep writing up these long brainy (for a given value of brainy) posts and forgetting to, you know, post them. So!
The Two Towers is actually kind of fabulous from a character development standpoint. Members of the Fellowship who were mostly ignored in FotR - Merry, Pippin, Legolas, and Gimli - get proportionately a ton more screen time, so to speak. And Legolas and Gimli are the most adorable Best Friends Evar OTP imaginable <3
Legolas is a little bit less of a mystery in this book, seeing as he, y'know, gets to do stuff apart from being the token Elf Who Is Awesomer Than You. He still has his moments of "look how I am so not a mortal," especially near the beginning, when he's extremely anxious about how their stops to rest might sabotage any hope they have of rescuing Merry and Pippin. Of course, the very fact that he's so worried about them shows how he's been kind of tipped over the brink into caring about his mortal companions. Elves are a cliquey bunch, you know? And I think it takes Legolas a while to shake that off (understandable, seeing as that's the culture he's lived in for thousands of years). He and Gimli are so adorable, IDEK. Legolas talks to him in a way he talks to no one else, casually and frankly. As much as the movie wants me to ship Legolas and Aragorn, in the books, Legolas treats him more... I dunno, like he would another elf. They kind of go into high-language-of-legend mode when they're together. With Gimli, Legolas makes jokes, and teases him, and tells him when he feels uncertain about things and when he doesn't like what's going on and how this all may suck but it sucks less because they're together. Legolas has this weird little "ancient child" whimsical side, his "I'm off to fetch the Sun" side that's in such contrast with his ridiculously badass elf side, and it comes out most strongly when he and Gimli are together. Gimli's good for him.
And Gimli, holy crap, is the most wonderful thing ever. He's clearly taken over Sam's role of "calls it like it is" (there was some precedent for this in FotR, but Gimli didn't get that many lines). Also? Total poet's soul. You thought he waxed lyrical over Galadriel - just wait until he sees the Glittering Caves at Helm's Deep. There are like three solid pages of his exaltations, and it's probably some of the most stunning description in the entire series. Legolas is so moved by it that he promises to come back with Gimli to see them after the war, even though he hates caves, and Gimli promises come with him to Fangorn, a place he's highly suspicious of (GOD they're cute <3). I think Gimli is the most passionate of anyone in the Fellowship. Everything he feels, good or bad, he feels with gusto. He was so delighted to finally get to kill some orcs, and he's absolutely fearless in battle. Orcs and trolls and scary wild men with explosives? Pah! Horses? OHGODNO. Only if he rides with Legolas, clinging desperately to him the whole time, or maybe with Eomer, if he asks nicely, but Legolas has to ride next to them! Because Legolas is apparently the only one Gimli trusts to keep the terrifying horse-monsters under control. And the TREES XD Fangorn is bad enough, but when Gandalf gets the Ents to lead a whole creepy forest down across Rohan to Helm's Deep to swallow up the attacking forces of Isengard, Gimli (and pretty much all of the Rohirrim) are like o_o "Can we go far far away now?" But not Legolas! Legolas is all "OOH TREES WANT!" And poor Gimli is there going "WTF let me off the horse at least before you ride to your death, crazy elf!" Ahaha, I love them.
GEEK TIME. I'm trying to figure out about how old Legolas is (I'm sure myriads of people have done this before). Here are the canon clues we get, as far as I've gathered them:
- Legolas says Fangorn (the forest, not the Ent) makes him "almost" young again, as he hasn't felt since he started journeying with "you children," meaning Aragorn and Gimli. Neither of them are, I think, over 100 at this point.
- He also says he's seen "many an oak grow from acorn to ruinous age." The oldest oak I can find record of on the interwebs is ~2,000 years old.
- His grandfather, Oropher, led a company of elves with Gil-galad's forces into battle against Sauron during the Last Alliance of Elves and Men, when Sauron was defeated and the Ring was taken by Isildur. Oropher died in that battle and Thranduil, Legolas's father, returned with the remainder of their people to Mirkwood. Since Thranduil was obviously also in the battle, he must've been of age by then, but as Legolas never mentions remembering this (and I think he'd've mentioned it) we can assume he hadn't been born yet. The problem with elves is that they don't grow old and can (presumably) have children at any time after they become adults, so there's no end cap on a parent's age for having children.
- The Battle of the Last Alliance took place at the end of the Second Age. The Third Age begins at the defeat of Sauron during this battle, and LotR takes place in 3018-19.
So I would say that the oldest Legolas could be is around 3,000 years old. He could be a little more if he was alive during the Battle of the Last Alliance but wasn't old enough to participate. I'd really think he'd remember it, though, unless he was an infant. Arwen was born around 240, I think, and I'd guess that they were rough contemporaries (maybe off by one generation, ish, since Elrond was born in the First Age and Legolas's grandfather took part in the war that ended the First Age. But that doesn't say a lot considering these are elves we're talking about).
The Two Towers is actually kind of fabulous from a character development standpoint. Members of the Fellowship who were mostly ignored in FotR - Merry, Pippin, Legolas, and Gimli - get proportionately a ton more screen time, so to speak. And Legolas and Gimli are the most adorable Best Friends Evar OTP imaginable <3
Legolas is a little bit less of a mystery in this book, seeing as he, y'know, gets to do stuff apart from being the token Elf Who Is Awesomer Than You. He still has his moments of "look how I am so not a mortal," especially near the beginning, when he's extremely anxious about how their stops to rest might sabotage any hope they have of rescuing Merry and Pippin. Of course, the very fact that he's so worried about them shows how he's been kind of tipped over the brink into caring about his mortal companions. Elves are a cliquey bunch, you know? And I think it takes Legolas a while to shake that off (understandable, seeing as that's the culture he's lived in for thousands of years). He and Gimli are so adorable, IDEK. Legolas talks to him in a way he talks to no one else, casually and frankly. As much as the movie wants me to ship Legolas and Aragorn, in the books, Legolas treats him more... I dunno, like he would another elf. They kind of go into high-language-of-legend mode when they're together. With Gimli, Legolas makes jokes, and teases him, and tells him when he feels uncertain about things and when he doesn't like what's going on and how this all may suck but it sucks less because they're together. Legolas has this weird little "ancient child" whimsical side, his "I'm off to fetch the Sun" side that's in such contrast with his ridiculously badass elf side, and it comes out most strongly when he and Gimli are together. Gimli's good for him.
And Gimli, holy crap, is the most wonderful thing ever. He's clearly taken over Sam's role of "calls it like it is" (there was some precedent for this in FotR, but Gimli didn't get that many lines). Also? Total poet's soul. You thought he waxed lyrical over Galadriel - just wait until he sees the Glittering Caves at Helm's Deep. There are like three solid pages of his exaltations, and it's probably some of the most stunning description in the entire series. Legolas is so moved by it that he promises to come back with Gimli to see them after the war, even though he hates caves, and Gimli promises come with him to Fangorn, a place he's highly suspicious of (GOD they're cute <3). I think Gimli is the most passionate of anyone in the Fellowship. Everything he feels, good or bad, he feels with gusto. He was so delighted to finally get to kill some orcs, and he's absolutely fearless in battle. Orcs and trolls and scary wild men with explosives? Pah! Horses? OHGODNO. Only if he rides with Legolas, clinging desperately to him the whole time, or maybe with Eomer, if he asks nicely, but Legolas has to ride next to them! Because Legolas is apparently the only one Gimli trusts to keep the terrifying horse-monsters under control. And the TREES XD Fangorn is bad enough, but when Gandalf gets the Ents to lead a whole creepy forest down across Rohan to Helm's Deep to swallow up the attacking forces of Isengard, Gimli (and pretty much all of the Rohirrim) are like o_o "Can we go far far away now?" But not Legolas! Legolas is all "OOH TREES WANT!" And poor Gimli is there going "WTF let me off the horse at least before you ride to your death, crazy elf!" Ahaha, I love them.
GEEK TIME. I'm trying to figure out about how old Legolas is (I'm sure myriads of people have done this before). Here are the canon clues we get, as far as I've gathered them:
- Legolas says Fangorn (the forest, not the Ent) makes him "almost" young again, as he hasn't felt since he started journeying with "you children," meaning Aragorn and Gimli. Neither of them are, I think, over 100 at this point.
- He also says he's seen "many an oak grow from acorn to ruinous age." The oldest oak I can find record of on the interwebs is ~2,000 years old.
- His grandfather, Oropher, led a company of elves with Gil-galad's forces into battle against Sauron during the Last Alliance of Elves and Men, when Sauron was defeated and the Ring was taken by Isildur. Oropher died in that battle and Thranduil, Legolas's father, returned with the remainder of their people to Mirkwood. Since Thranduil was obviously also in the battle, he must've been of age by then, but as Legolas never mentions remembering this (and I think he'd've mentioned it) we can assume he hadn't been born yet. The problem with elves is that they don't grow old and can (presumably) have children at any time after they become adults, so there's no end cap on a parent's age for having children.
- The Battle of the Last Alliance took place at the end of the Second Age. The Third Age begins at the defeat of Sauron during this battle, and LotR takes place in 3018-19.
So I would say that the oldest Legolas could be is around 3,000 years old. He could be a little more if he was alive during the Battle of the Last Alliance but wasn't old enough to participate. I'd really think he'd remember it, though, unless he was an infant. Arwen was born around 240, I think, and I'd guess that they were rough contemporaries (maybe off by one generation, ish, since Elrond was born in the First Age and Legolas's grandfather took part in the war that ended the First Age. But that doesn't say a lot considering these are elves we're talking about).
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no subject
Date: 2010-09-10 01:56 am (UTC)And trying to find out how old Legolas is by using the sources you have? I can't tell you how many times I've poured over a timeline or paged through volumes of manga trying to make sure that I had my facts straight, or that I actually had justification for the assumptions I was making. Do you find this fun? Because I really love it, and although I find it frustrating at times, I'm always pleased with myself when I find that something I've just guessed to be true actually is. Or at least that it makes sense. *laughs*
no subject
Date: 2010-09-12 01:38 pm (UTC)Do you find this fun?
YES OMG XD And this is why the Holmes fandom was so much fun, because it's pretty much entirely concerned with exactly this - trying to figure out random facts (like how many rooms 221b Baker Street has) using the source material you're given. It's like a treasure hunt! Or like translating! It's very satisfying :3