Links to things that are good

[elaby]

I've been trying to educate myself about my areas of privilege and how to stop perpetuating stereotypes and stop participating in the perpetuation of oppression, and I think this article has a lot of helpful things to say and links to other helpful articles besides.

The article is this guide for privileged fans by rhipowered. Not only is this article full if useful links, it also points out several things that I found very helpful as a privileged person wanting to read and understand discussions of privilege. Among these are the idea that people can be privileged in some areas and underprivileged in others and we have to accept being uncomfortable because of the privileges we enjoy; that someone saying "this thing you said is racist/ableist/sexist etc" does not mean the person pointing this out thinks you are racist/ableist/sexist etc; and that it's everyone's own responsibility to educate themselves and not the responsibility of the underprivileged person you want to discuss issues with. These are only a few of the helpful-learning things I've been reading about :)

I found the whole post, as well as the articles I read that it links to, understandable and helpful as someone who is new to this and wants to learn what to avoid and what to do in discussions on topics like this. I'm also pleased that, personally, I've moved past the "OMG the world is filled with horribleness that makes me want to hide under my bed instead of learn more!" stage in my reading of this kind of discourse.

Ohgod, I just used the term "discourse" in seriousness and automatically and without cringing. Could it be that the grad school stigma has worn off?

Comments

[storyfan.livejournal.com]

I read a few of the links and I want to give them all some more thought. But one thing I didn't like was the combative and rude tone these writers took. They are contradicting their own arguments in some cases; by calling what some writers write "fucking shit" they've already gone beyond the bounds of logical, reasonable argument.

For me, in-your-face education doesn't work. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. Please point it out, tell me how I can do better, but do it in the same way you would talk to a friend. I refuse to listen to anyone who yells at me, whether it's because of something I wrote or because of something they think I am.

Rhipowered does point out that it's not the writer he/she is calling racist, sexist, etc., but that person's writing. But when an attack like that is launched, I dare anyone to be able to tell the difference.

I'm not an overly sensitive writer. But the fact that I put myself and my writing out there for anonymous people to read does give me the right to be annoyed if these anonymous people say nasty things about it an effort to "educate" me. If a critic wants to educate in this fashion, then he or she had better have the courage to give a real name. I'd be happy to email back and forth on something like this, using my real-name email, if the critic is willing to do the same. Somehow I doubt I'd get any takers.

The anonymity of the internet allows people to take the role of educator to new and sometimes alarming heights. While I agree much, much more needs to be done on these sensitive issues, I don't think any one person has the right answer.

I'll get off my soapbox now. Thanks for listening to me.

[elaineofshalott]

This this this!

'Be the change you want to see in the world' seems to apply here--how can people fight disrespect with disrespect? It doesn't work so well. Civility, cool-headedness along with sympathy/empathy, respecting other people's personhood, and using every man *better than* his deserts (i.e., not giving anyone a verbal smackdown, no matter how much they might seem, at the time, to deserve it): seemingly out-of-favor tactics that I think would improve both the general discourse on -isms and those -isms themselves.

(elaby: never be afraid to use 'discourse', as a verb or a noun! It is a good word.)

[storyfan.livejournal.com]

I doubt you can sense my profound relief at your comment. But maybe you can.

I'm all for ridding the world of sexism, racism and all the other terrible isms our world seems reluctant to shed. But I want to do that while abiding by the rules of reasonable, logical argument. Name-calling and insults do not work - they never have. Neither does going off on a rant where the only adjective the writer can seem to conjure is "fucking."

I curse a lot online and in real life, but I never, ever will use curse words when I'm trying to make an important point or when discussing matters in which the other person and I disagree. When people use them on me, I don't hear them anymore. There are better ways to win another person to your side.

And to be honest, I've read a lot of fanfic, and I don't see the problems this writer is discussing. Perhaps that's because my favorite fandoms are from the Victorian era where conversation and actions are almost painfully polite. The stories in those fandoms were written more than 100 years ago, and I don't think that fanfic written for them has to comply with today's social standards. But then again, Sherlock Holmes, Dr. Watson, A.J. Raffles and Bunny Manders would never malign another person over matters of sex, race, religion or sexual preference. For them, it isn't the done thing. And besides, it isn't up to me to correct canon. I'm not the original writer of the stories and shouldn't presume to think I know better.

Thanks again for your understanding. And I agree: Discourse is a great word.

[elaby.livejournal.com]

I replied to storyfan's comment, so I hope it's not rude to refer you up there :) Thanks for your thoughts!

"Discourse" was the first of the new vocabulary I learned in grad school, and it was during a kind of trial-by-fire classroom experience XD I'm glad I'm not weirded out by using it anymore.

[elaby.livejournal.com]

I totally agree that much more gets accomplished when everyone takes a respectful tone. I think the reason that some of these articles had a combative tone is because they were written as someone's personal thoughts and emotional reactions, which I think are a valid form of communication. These articles may or may not be intended for an audience who sympathizes and/or has had the same experiences or an audience who the author wants to help educate. The authors may or may not be trying to fill the role of educator.

I'm very new at learning this, so I'm still formulating my ideas, but I think that while being respectful is extremely important in any conversation, one of the perspectives I've read is that sometimes people feel like others don't take their arguments seriously unless they do get angry.

But when an attack like that is launched, I dare anyone to be able to tell the difference.

What I took away from the articles on this is that learning to tell the difference is a step in the process - standing back and thinking, "Okay, they're saying this thing I did/said is racist, but that doesn't mean they think I'm a bad person, and now I need to evaluate what I said based on their comments." I've read lots of articles that talk about this in a respectful way, without name-calling or rudeness, so I've taken it into my way of thinking.

I also didn't mean to imply that I thought this article, and its collection of links, is the beginning and end of learning in this area. It's just something I personally found helpful. Thank you for your thoughts :)

[storyfan.livejournal.com]

You didn't imply any such thing. You presented information you found particularly useful and that's the way I took it.

The trouble I find with learning to tell the difference is that so many people who are criticizing others' work, writing, etc., don't differentiate between criticism of the work and the person. So maybe we all need to learn the rules of argument so that even more misunderstandings don't take place.

Thanks for posting all this. I'm enjoying the discussion.

[the-arethusa.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that is a good article. Lots of useful links. I've been reading through some of these arguments for a few months now; I love this stuff, even though it makes me feel crap about myself sometimes :) I'm all for consciousness raising.

It's hard to deal with at first but if you really want equality in this society you have to be aware of your place in it as it stands now; acknowledging your privileges as well.

Among these are the idea that people can be privileged in some areas and underprivileged in others and we have to accept being uncomfortable because of the privileges we enjoy

Yes, and the sooner we kill and bury the 'Oppression Olympics', the better off humanity will be.

As for the 'Tone Argument', I always think of this cartoon:

A Little Respect

I know it's aimed at Atheists and their relationship with the religious majority, but I get the feeling that this goes double for PoCs and their relationship with white people (to use just one example). How can you not get angry when faced with discrimination every day.

Anyway, this was really long reply considering all I wanted to say was "thanks for the link" XD

Edited for a bit of clarification. Sorry, it's very hot here and I'm far to British to cope with it.

[elaby.livejournal.com]

Thank you :) I'm glad you thought the article was a good one to link.

even though it makes me feel crap about myself sometimes :)

Yeah, seriously ^^;; I think I've managed to work through a little of that, so I feel less like scum when I read this stuff and more like doing something to educate myself and change what I need to.

Yes, and the sooner we kill and bury the 'Oppression Olympics', the better off humanity will be.

Yes. Oh, yes. And I'm trying to work past the "I'm gay and I understand oppression so I don't need to learn about how not to propagate racism!" Because that's just silly.

That's a great cartoon XD And I think your point is very valid. Thanks for linking to it!

[coastal-spirit.livejournal.com]

I haven't read through all the links yet, but I found this to be helpful and somewhat enlightening. I've been hearing so much about this subject lately from all over, and although many of the concepts discussed are not new to me, the idea of understanding our own areas of privilege is. The best we can do is to educate ourselves and try to apply what we learn, thus improving our understanding without beating ourselves up for any mistakes we might make along the way.

One of my favorite quotes from the article is this:

It's possible to like stuff that's problematic. Nearly everything I like fucks up in some way. You just have to recognise the issues at hand, be willing to criticise them, and be willing to accept and understand people who are hurt.

I think this is important to note.

[elaby.livejournal.com]

thus improving our understanding without beating ourselves up for any mistakes we might make along the way.

Yeah, exactly. One of the things I've been reading a lot is about how you will screw up, some time or another, and you just have to be able to accept it and apologize and learn from it rather than going "Augh, forget it!"

I liked that quote too :) And I also think it's important. Thank you ^_^ I'm glad you found this useful and interesting!